No, I do not think the Pledge always had the word “God,” in it, nor is it important.

Symbols on public property, meaning property owned by me and every other American, is not necessarily an endorsement.

Regarding what you said about my example regarding symbols in the Catholic Church, you have proven that you completely missed my point.

I am glad that you are through with this conversation because you are unable to grasp the ideas behind my clearly-illustrated examples.

You are completely unable to understand what I write because your focus is narrow. With comments like “duh” and “You don’t get it,” you demonstrate that you are entirely too emotional about this issue to rationally discuss it.

And yup, as the author his opinion is a little relevant…display of a religious symbol by a state entity and that whole establishment of a religion clause…

And you misquoted I said suffering, not harm. And it does cause suffering, I have seen it first hand and your flippant attitude that it is ok if mommy explains it right is trite.

Duh, Christian symbols are in a Catholic Church. This is specifically an issue of GOVERNMENTAL display of religious symbols. Christians aren’t punished by not having our symbols placed on government buildings…religious symbols don’t belong on government buildings because of the establishment of religion clause, thus the decor of the Supreme Court.

The freedom to express your belief is guarenteed, thanks to Madison primarily. But government endorsement of a religion is not, and the presence of a religious symbol on government property does that.

You might want to look up a little on the history of Supreme Court rulings on the subject and of Judicial interpretation because the separation of Church and State is the ENTIRE point. A religious symbol is NOT simply a cultural symbol and that is why the prohibition of governemental establishment of religion is the FIRST Amendment. http://jcs.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/pdf_extract/37/2/385 (note that Constitutional Law is based on not only the document itself but that justices read the writings behind them for interpretive purposes) This is why it is regularly upheld http://worldpolicy.org/projects/globalrights/religion/supremecourt.html

Your desire to “propose” that Madison was merely a philosopher shows you have a lot to learn…all those other Founding Fathers chose him to do the writing…and he and they felt that separation was the only way to structure the relationship between Church and State so no, you are extremely wrong. He and his predecessors in thought on the subject would most whole heartedly DISagree with you because they would not want any government entity or building to endorse a religion.

The type of thinking you demonstrate actually increases religious persecution and intolerance instead of increasing harmony.

Im done…you probably think the pledge of allegiance always had the word God in it too.

An observation that one’s religious symbols are not publicly displayed must not be construed as “harm.” The observation of a child is excellent, and there is nothing wrong with a child realizing he or she is a minority in his or her belief system. The harm is done when a child does not receive a correct answer.

For example, Christian symbols are obviously going to be found in Catholic churches and works, but Catholicism also has high regard for Judaism, and Jewish symbols are found in Catholic books. Christian symbols are predominant because the majority of Americans are Christian, and they should not be punished for being the majority.

I embrace the rights of other faiths to display their works in public, and I have been subjected to public displays from social groups that I do not agree with and am even somewhat offended by, in college. I, as a religious majority, have been persecuted for my beliefs on several occasions within the US. I do not embrace telling any groups that they cannot express themselves. I would like to add that to make a conscious effort to equally express all groups, disproportionately to their numbers in our population is a socialistic tendency, and that is something I am completely against. You cannot change my opinion on that.

Do not misunderstand this. If there are more Jewish displays than Christian displays because more Jews showed to decorate, then that is actually pretty awesome; but if society makes a point of making sure everyone is equally represented in a display for the purpose of political correctness, then that is marching a fine line (it could go either way).

Now, I have looked at Madison’s work, and I’ve seen the information about religions and taxation, and that is irrelevant to my argument. What I have not seen is a clear distinction that religious symbols should not be publicly displayed, and how that violates the separation of church and state. If you can link to an article that actually shows me HIS wording pertaining directly to this point, then please post. If not, then you have no support for your argument. You must provide the evidence.

Bringing the freedom of speech and expression into play, public display of cultural symbols is constitutional, and this applies just as much to national parks as it does to city hall. Interpretations of the separation of church and state that infringe upon the freedom of expression are null and void. The US Government cannot claim that we have freedom of expression and then tell us that we cannot express ourselves on public land.

Also, while Madison is “the father of our Constitution,” he is not our only founding father. I would argue that he kept in mind that the Constitution should not serve his own agenda, but should truly represent the welfare of the people. Having said that, his works will contain his personal opinions, whether or not he meant for them to be the true meaning of the Constitution. I would like to propose that Madison is a philosopher, in which case, his works are meant to create dialogue and consideration, not to be a general rule.

My argument is not biased towards any particular group, but it is biased towards free expression. Legislation is another matter. I do not believe the government should have much say in how with live our lives. If the government steps up and says, “We can’t have those religious symbols here,” then that is big government, and I do believe Madison would agree with me on that.